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Don't Rebuild the Big Easy
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Post Don't Rebuild the Big Easy 


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A year after Katrina, officials from New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin all the way to George Bush have been promisiing that New Orleans would be rebuilt, in all its "glory."

Forget it. The city is a bowl under sea level, and it only kept getting worse under decades of government meddling with the Mississippi River.

Whether you believe the storm was . . .

* A random act of nature; or
* A random "Act of God" as the insurance companies refusing to pay claims like to say, or
* A willful act of God, on a wicked and decadent city. (Katrina pre-empted Southern
* Decadence, a "festival" in which homosexuals did what homesexuals do with each other, in the streets.); or
* An accident of bureaucracy and human incompetence, that left poorly built and maintained levees, and no workable evacuation plan; or
* A willful act of government, a conspiracy to let people die, sort of a "racial cleansing"

. . . it just doesn't make sense to rebuild the city that Wynton Marsallis arrogantly and stupidly called "the soul of the nation." It is the underbelly of this nation. The billions being lavished on N.O. by FEMA and a host of federal agencies might as well be flushed down a toilet.

For once, let's believe the Global Warming doomsters. New Orleans is going to get inundated anyway when Greenland and Antarctica melt. Fix the Port of New Orleans only as much as necessary to keep Mississippi R. commerce flowing. But otherwise, let's save billions of bucks and leave the Big Easy be: a monument to the psychopathic stupidity of government.
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You're calling New Orleans the underbelly of the nation? You're calling our beloved crescent city so filled with soul and vigor the nation's underbelly? One of the largest ports in America and, where a sh*t load of our oil refinerys were (and still are) held does not constitute as America's "underbelly"

Apparently you've never been there. And don't just talk about New Orleans, if you knew the region, you'd know the entire gulf coast was destroyed from Slidell to to some of downtown Mobile, Alabama.

Of COURSE it deserves to be rebuilt it was and always will be a very important port, location, tourist attraction (which gives money to the city and richness to America as a whole) and point of culture, history and food.

That was just plain uneducated. What is in your head?



-William


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William_Mac wrote:

Apparently you've never been there. And don't just talk about New Orleans, if you knew the region, you'd know the entire gulf coast was destroyed from Slidell to to some of downtown Mobile, Alabama.

Okay, I've been there, and I'll tell you there's 2 parts of New Orleans worth rebuilding: 1) the port; and 2) the historical sections (French Quarter, Warehouse District, Garden District, etc). And guess what? Most of those sections are easy to rebuild because there were above ground in the first place....

That "bowl" where the worst flooding hit was a ghetto. There was no glory there, and people were only living there because that's where the poorest of New Orleans sort-of concentrated. Frankly, in a modern economy, there is no reason why 1 dime of government money should go to refilling that soup bowl. If people want to move back or buy up the worthless land, fine, so be it, it's their wasted life.

Sometimes a disaster is the best thing to happen to an area (see, Chicago fire). In fact, the best thing that could happen to a lot of ghettos is a natural disaster.


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jchagan wrote:
William_Mac wrote:

Apparently you've never been there. And don't just talk about New Orleans, if you knew the region, you'd know the entire gulf coast was destroyed from Slidell to to some of downtown Mobile, Alabama.

Okay, I've been there, and I'll tell you there's 2 parts of New Orleans worth rebuilding: 1) the port; and 2) the historical sections (French Quarter, Warehouse District, Garden District, etc). And guess what? Most of those sections are easy to rebuild because there were above ground in the first place....

That "bowl" where the worst flooding hit was a ghetto. There was no glory there, and people were only living there because that's where the poorest of New Orleans sort-of concentrated. Frankly, in a modern economy, there is no reason why 1 dime of government money should go to refilling that soup bowl. If people want to move back or buy up the worthless land, fine, so be it, it's their wasted life.

Sometimes a disaster is the best thing to happen to an area (see, Chicago fire). In fact, the best thing that could happen to a lot of ghettos is a natural disaster.


The "ghetto" you refer to was just a normal residential area with businesses, dancing schools, gyms and regular communites. Just like Savannah, GA (which is known widely as "The Little New Orleans") the "ghetto" or project areas are intergrated with regular middle class homes. If I were going to agree with you and Savannah was swept into the ocean I would say that all the residential areas there were the ghetto. That's simply not true. I lived in New Orleans for a year and I lived in Savannah for almost a year, there is basically no difference. My sister lived in New Orleans for 4 years, and I visited her numerous times. I know both of those cities very well. Be educated. Why is it now that, in Atlanta (where I currently live) to major cities in Texas all the way over and up to Virginia I have met people from New Orleans whos houses were destroyed. They have great skills, have great jobs and did the same in their beloved Big Easy, that, to me, doesn't constitute as "the ghetto" it's just tight city living. And, although I agree New Orleans wasn't laid out that well, part of the charm for us grittiar folks was the overall depravity, humidity and shitty parts of town were what made it amazing.


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Post I don't need to dive into a cesspool 


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Mac,

You don't have mild thoughts do you? Well, you got so excited you didn't read my statements. I said "Fix the Port of New Orleans only as much as necessary to keep Mississippi R. commerce flowing." I could have added the refineries, I suppose.

Well, you think New Orleans has charm. Does that charm include "Southern Decadence," the homosexual "festival" (orgy in the streets) that was planned for the day that Katrina hit?

The loss of life is tragic, but as to wiping out a gathering which organizers said would be the wildest homosexual "celebration" ever in the nation, either mother nature or God did Louisiana a favor, depending on your point of view.

I guess you'll have to go find your depravity somewhere else. No, wait. Murder and violent crime are exploding in N.O. I guess the depravity has returned, though of a different sort.

I think I was in N.O. once, but too long ago to be relevant to this discussion. Do I need to jump into a tank of raw sewage to conclude it's a cesspool? No. So I guess I won't be visiting your favorite city any time soon, at least as a tourist. I had considered going there to help rebuild, but didn't have the finances, and am unwilling to dig into the pot of graft-tainted FEMA money.

Jchagan. Good words.


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Post Re: I don't need to dive into a cesspool 


NonPartisan wrote:
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Mac,

You don't have mild thoughts do you? Well, you got so excited you didn't read my statements. I said "Fix the Port of New Orleans only as much as necessary to keep Mississippi R. commerce flowing." I could have added the refineries, I suppose.

Well, you think New Orleans has charm. Does that charm include "Southern Decadence," the homosexual "festival" (orgy in the streets) that was planned for the day that Katrina hit?

The loss of life is tragic, but as to wiping out a gathering which organizers said would be the wildest homosexual "celebration" ever in the nation, either mother nature or God did Louisiana a favor, depending on your point of view.

I guess you'll have to go find your depravity somewhere else. No, wait. Murder and violent crime are exploding in N.O. I guess the depravity has returned, though of a different sort.

I think I was in N.O. once, but too long ago to be relevant to this discussion. Do I need to jump into a tank of raw sewage to conclude it's a cesspool? No. So I guess I won't be visiting your favorite city any time soon, at least as a tourist. I had considered going there to help rebuild, but didn't have the finances, and am unwilling to dig into the pot of graft-tainted FEMA money.

Jchagan. Good words.


Who cares if New Orleans homosexuals wanted to stage a giant orgy. I doubt it would have gone through as planned anyway, but again.... who cares? We don't live in America any more? No one has a right to be homosexual and do whatever they want (with the risk of arrest upon breaking the law) to show who they are? Besides, Yeah, New Orleans has homosexuals and they have organizations. The same goes for anywhere else in America.

And as far as murder, violence and crime? Where the *Bleep* do you get off? There is murder, violence and crime all over the nation. Would you be going around spewing your thoughts on god if we were nuked?

Once again, you are not educated, you haven not been to New Orleans, you don't know anything about it or the culture, organizations, anything. You read or hear something and you believe it, you have no base for your oponions.

Why exactly do you think crime is back again? Because they people there are poor and ravished! Of course there is going to be more crime. And as far as FEMA, is that New Orlean's fault?

Get educated, then start putting out your oppinions.



-william


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Okay, so it's half-ghetto, half-middle class (I'll concede this even though everything I know disagrees).

That means that:
1) Regardless of WHERE we choose to rebuild, SOMETHING has to be built from scratch.
2) Given 1, why not build somewhere other than a giant under-sea-level bowl? If there's nothing remarkable or vaible in the national interest to rebuilding that area, then why should a single federal dollar be spent there?

It makes no sense whatsoever to rebuild a needless place in a hazard zone for the sake of "rebuilding the Big Easy."


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It is easy to say, "Let's rebuild New Orleans." as rhetoric, but who is going to pay for it? For those of you who WANT to see it rebuilt, but would you be happy with a tax increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

Then what if it gets flooded again? Trust me, no matter how strong the levees are, they are no match to the force of mother nature. Are we going to rebuild it again? When does this vicious and expensive cycle end? If the land is proven not habitable, then live somewhere else.


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If New Orleans can come up with over 100 millions to fix the Superdome, they can rebuild on the city on their own I guess. What a waste of money?! $100 millions for a few millionaire football players. The Superdome is reopened tonight for their first home game since Katrina.


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Terry wrote:
It is easy to say, "Let's rebuild New Orleans." as rhetoric, but who is going to pay for it? For those of you who WANT to see it rebuilt, but would you be happy with a tax increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

Then what if it gets flooded again? Trust me, no matter how strong the levees are, they are no match to the force of mother nature. Are we going to rebuild it again? When does this vicious and expensive cycle end? If the land is proven not habitable, then live somewhere else.


Not rebuilding New Orleans is like not rebuilding the section of New York that was damaged by The World Trade Center towers. Symbols, cities, statues, parks, and anything else along those lines are just as important as that.

Everyone that is against the rebuilding of New Orleans is severly mistaken. Why don't they fight about taxes against something that is admirable, and there are plenty, use your imagination.

New Orleans is a symbol to America. Are we simply going to leave a land mass that was previously an important part of America to rot? What are you thinking? The government was warned time and time again that New Orleans was not ready to withstand a hurricane, and like the immigration issue it was overlooked too long (ignored) to where it got severely out of hand.

It only makes sense to rebuild this important port and oil refinary site as well as symbol of an important part of American history.



-William


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William_Mac wrote:
Terry wrote:
It is easy to say, "Let's rebuild New Orleans." as rhetoric, but who is going to pay for it? For those of you who WANT to see it rebuilt, but would you be happy with a tax increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

Then what if it gets flooded again? Trust me, no matter how strong the levees are, they are no match to the force of mother nature. Are we going to rebuild it again? When does this vicious and expensive cycle end? If the land is proven not habitable, then live somewhere else.


Not rebuilding New Orleans is like not rebuilding the section of New York that was damaged by The World Trade Center towers. Symbols, cities, statues, parks, and anything else along those lines are just as important as that.

Everyone that is against the rebuilding of New Orleans is severly mistaken. Why don't they fight about taxes against something that is admirable, and there are plenty, use your imagination.

New Orleans is a symbol to America. Are we simply going to leave a land mass that was previously an important part of America to rot? What are you thinking? The government was warned time and time again that New Orleans was not ready to withstand a hurricane, and like the immigration issue it was overlooked too long (ignored) to where it got severely out of hand.

It only makes sense to rebuild this important port and oil refinary site as well as symbol of an important part of American history.



-William

If you think the middle of that bowl in New Orleans has the same significant to America than a part of the NYC skyline, you're sorely mistaken. No one that I know of is against rebuilding the New Orleans of the French Quarter and the Garden District; that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about a part of New Orleans where people should not have even been living in the first place and holds no symbolic value.


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jchagan wrote:
William_Mac wrote:
Terry wrote:
It is easy to say, "Let's rebuild New Orleans." as rhetoric, but who is going to pay for it? For those of you who WANT to see it rebuilt, but would you be happy with a tax increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

Then what if it gets flooded again? Trust me, no matter how strong the levees are, they are no match to the force of mother nature. Are we going to rebuild it again? When does this vicious and expensive cycle end? If the land is proven not habitable, then live somewhere else.


Not rebuilding New Orleans is like not rebuilding the section of New York that was damaged by The World Trade Center towers. Symbols, cities, statues, parks, and anything else along those lines are just as important as that.

Everyone that is against the rebuilding of New Orleans is severly mistaken. Why don't they fight about taxes against something that is admirable, and there are plenty, use your imagination.

New Orleans is a symbol to America. Are we simply going to leave a land mass that was previously an important part of America to rot? What are you thinking? The government was warned time and time again that New Orleans was not ready to withstand a hurricane, and like the immigration issue it was overlooked too long (ignored) to where it got severely out of hand.

It only makes sense to rebuild this important port and oil refinary site as well as symbol of an important part of American history.



-William

If you think the middle of that bowl in New Orleans has the same significant to America than a part of the NYC skyline, you're sorely mistaken. No one that I know of is against rebuilding the New Orleans of the French Quarter and the Garden District; that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about a part of New Orleans where people should not have even been living in the first place and holds no symbolic value.




See, people who are saying what you're saying, have clearly not been in New Orleans for an extended period of time. If you had, you would realize, that New Orleans IS A BOWL! New Orleans is not just the districts you mentioned, it's all the areas surrounding it. Those "ghettos" as people labeled it ARE THE CITY! The rest of it is just business and hotels and what not. Are you saying that the people that are going to fuel the economy of those districts that you say should stay intact, should drive 50 to 100 miles a day (with these prices) just to get to work? Some of which will be minimum wage? Come on. Once again, I say strengthen the weather security, and have the residential sites revamped for building.

If you don't do that then New Orleans (the districts you say are the only things that should stay) will be no more than ghettos themselves, and shitty liquor stores and what not. And, if anyone is thinking of building an elaborate buss rout to far away residential areas out of storm's way, they are insane. To do some crazy transportation rout without simple storm protection would be superfluous if a storm did come, and would cost more money than a simple construction progress (a slow and steady one fueled by tourist's money).

New Orleans could have survived Katrina, had it headed the warnings, and the American government could have aided in this had the city shouted louder. I'm sure they have learned their lesson.

It's either let the city become a ghost down of local neighborhood degenerates begging for money on the side of the road with syringes sticking out of their eyeballs, or building back up the tourism spots/ businesses in the Garden and French Quarter districts by safening the city, allowing homes, and re-emphasizing the port.

-William


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Post Rebuild? Yes and no and why 


Clean-up and the restoration of an adequate level of functionality should be an obligation regardless of whether the afflicted city or area has any sort of legacy or not. Tax dollars are a moot point - let me remind you that our nation has a history of ambiguous usage of tax dollars and this is not an ambiguous sitiuation. New Orleans is high profile because it's both loved and hated with much intensity. A fact that the people that live and lived there don't give a damn about - as neither would we if our Minneapolis or DC or wherever we live were wiped out and rendered uninhabitable before our eyes. I happen to love New Orleans. I grew up in Louisiana and frequented the city. I like the food, I like the grit, I like the people - it possesses an rare ethos that you just don't get in so many of the decentralized 'cities' that are scattered across the States. However, I fear what an unmitigated outpour of rebuilding and development will bring about. I fear for some vinyl-siding clad pseudo-New Orleans, a New Orleans far more 'New Orleans' than it ever was, full of JazzWorlds and FatsDominoLands, with rabbit casserole and crawfish etoufee that costs more than any bootlegged bottle of absinthe would in a thousand years. A 'New Orleans' stripped of its vinyl essence - This, I think, would clear the city of its citizens just as quickly as any form of natural disaster.
As for any implications that New Orleans deserved what it got because it's a city of full of heathens - that's just bullshit. Same goes for the sole preservation of the 'glorious' parts of the city, the quasi-fictional highlights under the radar of folks far removed from New Orleans old and new.


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Post Re: Rebuild? Yes and no and why 


Van de Guerre wrote:
Clean-up and the restoration of an adequate level of functionality should be an obligation regardless of whether the afflicted city or area has any sort of legacy or not. Tax dollars are a moot point - let me remind you that our nation has a history of ambiguous usage of tax dollars and this is not an ambiguous sitiuation. New Orleans is high profile because it's both loved and hated with much intensity. A fact that the people that live and lived there don't give a damn about - as neither would we if our Minneapolis or DC or wherever we live were wiped out and rendered uninhabitable before our eyes. I happen to love New Orleans. I grew up in Louisiana and frequented the city. I like the food, I like the grit, I like the people - it possesses an rare ethos that you just don't get in so many of the decentralized 'cities' that are scattered across the States. However, I fear what an unmitigated outpour of rebuilding and development will bring about. I fear for some vinyl-siding clad pseudo-New Orleans, a New Orleans far more 'New Orleans' than it ever was, full of JazzWorlds and FatsDominoLands, with rabbit casserole and crawfish etoufee that costs more than any bootlegged bottle of absinthe would in a thousand years. A 'New Orleans' stripped of its vinyl essence - This, I think, would clear the city of its citizens just as quickly as any form of natural disaster.
As for any implications that New Orleans deserved what it got because it's a city of full of heathens - that's just bullshit. Same goes for the sole preservation of the 'glorious' parts of the city, the quasi-fictional highlights under the radar of folks far removed from New Orleans old and new.


That's right. After Katrina hit I was in Savannah, GA discussing the rebuilding proccess with a New Orleans native. The thing we were most concerned about was exactly what you outlined. We talked about the real lure of New Orleans was the gritty side mixed in with the modern side. Back then we were both afraid that the rebuilding proccess, thinking that the gritty "ghettoesque" side that contributed to so much of New Orleans' authenticity would be destroyed by some sort of corperate advertising machine daming New Orleans to a once great,but now commercialized city of "survival of the fittest" with Fat Domino's "I'm Walkin' To New Orleans'" as the the citie's song.

A lot of what the original author of this thread (and those who reposted in agreemant)'s problem is that they don't understand that New Orleans' shitty residential facets were part of the lure of the city itself.

It's such an important part of America, it's traditions, music, lifestyle and over all culture matter. And, for those "yankees" or "outsiders" I just don't think they recognize that.



-William


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Post Re: Rebuild? Yes and no and why 


William_Mac wrote:
A lot of what the original author of this thread (and those who reposted in agreemant)'s problem is that they don't understand that New Orleans' shitty residential facets were part of the lure of the city itself.


I totally agree that the somewhat decayed and run down parts of NO were part of the allure. However, that's not something you can rebuild. Yes, you can build in the same places, but you can't create an old town the way New Orleans was. Because the allure of those parts wasn't just that they were a bit run down, it was that they were old. The whole area espouses a different time. But if you rebuild everything to modern specifications, it's just not the same.

I don't think there's any chance that people would not rebuild, though. That's just human nature. We build a castle in a swamp and it sinks. We build another one - that sinks into the swamp. We build a third one and that burns down, falls over and then sinks into the swamp. And that's just how we do things.


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Post Re: Rebuild? Yes and no and why 


luciensar wrote:
William_Mac wrote:
A lot of what the original author of this thread (and those who reposted in agreemant)'s problem is that they don't understand that New Orleans' shitty residential facets were part of the lure of the city itself.


I totally agree that the somewhat decayed and run down parts of NO were part of the allure. However, that's not something you can rebuild. Yes, you can build in the same places, but you can't create an old town the way New Orleans was. Because the allure of those parts wasn't just that they were a bit run down, it was that they were old. The whole area espouses a different time. But if you rebuild everything to modern specifications, it's just not the same.

I don't think there's any chance that people would not rebuild, though. That's just human nature. We build a castle in a swamp and it sinks. We build another one - that sinks into the swamp. We build a third one and that burns down, falls over and then sinks into the swamp. And that's just how we do things.


Yeah, it's a little sad about how it will never be the same city. I'm just glad I was around to experience it before. I'm curiouse as to see what the next generation will experience.

As far as the swamp thing, just look at the king from Monty Python and The Holy grail, he built three castles before the last one finally STOOD! That's right, there are many beautiful life lessons in that movie. Selah.



-William


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Yes, I've been to an NO for an extended period. Those people living in the middle of the bowl do NOT need to live there for the French Quarter to be functional. The Garden District (on the rim of the bowl, above sea level), is mostly residential, and away from the main streets the property is affordable. Most people who work in the French Quarter and Warehouse district live in the Garden district and further up on the "rim."

There is NO reason for the government to pay for people to live that much below sea level just to restore a city to its former supposed never-existant "glory," period, end of sentence. You can and will have mardi gras and all that with or without it.


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jchagan wrote:
Yes, I've been to an NO for an extended period. Those people living in the middle of the bowl do NOT need to live there for the French Quarter to be functional. The Garden District (on the rim of the bowl, above sea level), is mostly residential, and away from the main streets the property is affordable. Most people who work in the French Quarter and Warehouse district live in the Garden district and further up on the "rim."

There is NO reason for the government to pay for people to live that much below sea level just to restore a city to its former supposed never-existant "glory," period, end of sentence. You can and will have mardi gras and all that with or without it.


Look, apparently, you have not been there for an "extended period" of time. Or else you would understand that your statements are false. What is in an extended period of time for you? Or, an extended period of study.

Get off it.



-William


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Hey, new here to the posts. I've just been reading through some of the past replies and I've got a question for you, William. You obviously seem to be preoccupied with what you consider to be an "extended period of time" spent in New Orleans. How much time do you think someone has to actually spend in New Orleans before they've experienced the proper amount of historical tradition? You talk like you've spent years there. How much time have you actually spent there?

Oh, and that comment earlier about "yankees" and "outsiders" not recognizing that...honestly, do you really think the north doesn't have any respect for history? You do realize that this country was first founded in northern cities, right? Do you think that there is a lack of respect for restoration and rebuilding of these historic landmarks?

Richard.


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Richard.L wrote:
Hey, new here to the posts. I've just been reading through some of the past replies and I've got a question for you, William. You obviously seem to be preoccupied with what you consider to be an "extended period of time" spent in New Orleans. How much time do you think someone has to actually spend in New Orleans before they've experienced the proper amount of historical tradition? You talk like you've spent years there. How much time have you actually spent there?

Oh, and that comment earlier about "yankees" and "outsiders" not recognizing that...honestly, do you really think the north doesn't have any respect for history? You do realize that this country was first founded in northern cities, right? Do you think that there is a lack of respect for restoration and rebuilding of these historic landmarks?

Richard.


I spent about a year and half there, and visited frequently because of family and friends. As far as spending time there, that doesn't really matter as long as study has gone into a commnet, I'm sure you understand that. People simply saying "don't rebuild it" and "there is no use" obviously have not studied or spent an extended time. It's one or the other, at least study on it for a while.

As far as my comment about "yankees" and "outsiders" that was more or less sarcasm, and nothing else. Although every ademant southerner does harbor some sort of strange and weird contempt in their heart for what they refer to as "yankees" and "outsiders" but... you know we love ya'll.

I don't think YOU have any disrespect, you sound like an educated person with a perspective. On these other posts, I was rather enraged. That's all. Education should ALWAYS go into a perspective, not simple assumption and news from the media.



-William


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So you studied in New Orleans? Did you attend University of New Orleans, Loyola, or one of the other schools? You must have been pretty disturbed by Katrina, I certainly would have been moved had my college town been hit with such devastating forces. What are your thoughts regarding studying there?

Richard.


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Post Bleep to you, too, Bill_Mac 


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William_Mac said: "Who cares if New Orleans homosexuals wanted to stage a giant orgy."

Well, maybe the public health officials care. They would have to deal with the syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, hepatitis, shigella, giardia, and a host of other viral, bacterial, and parasitic diseases acquired at such an orgy by those engaging in sexual practices using bodily orifices not intended for such. (And I'm not even mentioning HIV/AIDS, am I?)

Well, maybe we taxpayers care. That's because we are paying billions of dollars a year to treat homosexuals and their diseases.

William_Mac said: "And as far as murder, violence and crime? Where the *Bleep* do you get off? There is murder, violence and crime all over the nation."

Where the "bleep" have you been, Bill? The media have had plenty of stories of the epidemic of violent crime in New Orleans, with police saying they have never seen such a level of violence by young thugs who seem to have no scruples against killing anybody. The thugs have been aided by the fact that local cops and the feds confiscated the weapons of law-abiding citizens who remained behind after Katrina. Thugs are always opportunists.


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